Friday, June 02, 2006

Counterinsurgency Theory, Sort Of

Is there a counterinsurgency theory which explicitly accounts for the effect of the media? One is badly needed.

There's an interesting article by Eric P. Wendt based on counter-terrorism experience on Basilan describing operations against the Abu Sayyaf. One of the major keys to success, in the author's view is not the destruction of enemy output but it's infrastructure.

While it is important to target all four areas shown in Leites' and Wolf's model, it is helpful to liken internal and external support to a well that provides the overall supply of water. The water flows from the well through the spigot (the infrastructure), which translates it into output (guerrilla patrols, bombings, etc). The output can be equated to water coming out of a faucet. Attacking the output involves engaging trained, organized and equipped insurgents, or their planted bombs, in battle. Such attacks against insurgent output are resource-intensive and often carry a high price in blood.

While attacking the output is a necessary portion of COIN, it must be a supporting effort and not the main effort. Attacking output as the main effort in COIN is equivalent to trying to stop the flow of water by slapping at it as it comes out of the spigot. If we throw ever-increasing resources against the output, we will slap the water even faster, but we are doomed to failure. Attacking output as the main effort in COIN has failed throughout history, and it will fail during the GWOT.

The unconventional approach to COIN must address all areas of the Leites and Wolf model, but the main effort must be to attack the cadre or infrastructure. In conventional war, we can make direct attacks against troops in the field (output), but in COIN, we cannot directly attack the members of the infrastructure, because we cannot easily identify them.

Instead, we must first work indirectly, through, by and with the local internal supporters and population, using the correct carrots and sticks so that the population will identify and expose members of the local insurgent infrastructure for us. Once they have been identified by the local populace, the infrastructure members can be killed or captured. When we work indirectly through the local populace to identify members of the infrastructure, we are correctly stopping the insurgent flow of water by turning off the spigot. Targeting the members of the local infrastructure must be the main effort in COIN.

The whole article emphasizes the use of developing local structures to defeat the enemy. Politics and public diplomacy, to use the word du jour, is the main weapon in counterinsurgency. One striking omission in the paper is the lack of discussion of the role of the media in any campaign. The campaign in Basilan was conducted outside the glare of media scrutiny, a factor which other battlefields of the GWOT -- even Afghanistan -- share to degree because of press preoccupation with Iraq.

The interesting question is what effect a closely involved MSM will have on the task of working "indirectly, through, by and with the local internal supporters and population, using the correct carrots and sticks so that the population will identify and expose members of the local insurgent infrastructure for us". Two people with a possible opinion on the subject are Max Boot and Robert Kaplan. Boot's views on the efficacy of small footprint interventions are well known. At a symposium at the Council of Foreign Relations Kaplan spoke to issue of media involvement directly.

KAPLAN: First of all, Iraq, whether you supported the war beforehand or not, was never a model for how we want to do things all the time. It’s not a paradigm. You don’t send in 140,000 troops just on the—you know, on the spur of the moment. So in terms of what’s the paradigm, I believe the paradigm is small footprint—you know, preventive maintenance; that the smaller the mission—you know, the more under the media radar screen it is, the more the U.S. taxpayer gets a bang for his buck.

Kaplan used the particular subject of Abu Ghraib to illustrate how media coverage alters politics, which -- remember -- is the key element in counterinsurgency.

So there was anger within the military, at the military. But after about five or six weeks after the story broke, there was terrible anger against the media. Now, there wasn’t anger against the media at the beginning because it was a legitimate, big story. It was wise that it was uncovered, obviously. But after six weeks or so, when it continued to be covered at the same level—and you had the Army doing great work in Najaf and Karbala, going from a battle rhythm of fighting in the morning to getting electricity started in the afternoon; that’s where, I think, Staff Sergeant Ray won his Medal of Honor—you know, you had some stuff that would make the greatest Hollywood movies, and it was relatively not being covered, you know, in proportional comparison to this, which was already a six-week old story with relatively little new coming out. At that point, the attitude towards the media was horrific.

It would be interesting if someone could write a theoretical guide to counterinsurgency which took into account the effect of the media on operations. One interesting possibility is that the reason small footprints preferred by Boot are more efficient than big footprints is that they prevent a war from being politicized by a media circus. Sometimes the word circus is literally apt. Recently in East Timor, competition between two rival TV networks captured how the ringmasters works. Channel 7 got a film clip of the Channel 9 correspondent setting up an interview and subsequently aired the bombshell. The film clip

shows host Jessica Rowe interviewing East Timor taskforce commanding officer Brigadier Michael Slater. "I'm wondering how you feel about your safety given that you've got armed guards there standing behind you, armed soldiers," Rowe says.

"Jessica, I feel quite safe, yes," Brigadier Slater says. "But not because I've got these armed soldiers behind me that were put there by your stage manager here to make it look good."

Commentary

The Jessca Rowe-Slater incident was enlightening because it suggests that since the media is part of the battlefield, the coverage of the media must be a vital part of the entire picture. The curious over-reaction by the MSM to embedded bloggers -- questioning their legitimacy, their "objectivity", their professionalism, etc -- recollects nothing so much as the effect of garlic or a Cross on a vampire. Reflecting on it, I think the reason is that bloggers often do what the Channel 7 did to Channel 9 in the incident above. One unnoticed fact -- you can check it out -- is that blogger Stephen Vincent was the only Western media person killed in Iraq in 2005. The statistical unlikeliness of that fact has always bothered me. But from the viewpoint of the Ba'athist insurgency it would make sense to target the anyone who could cover the media. After all, the regular media works through stringers and must maintain "access"; it's got to sell stories, etc. As Eason Jordan reminded us, the regular media has long had relationships with the Ba'ath. If the media is a weapon then it makes sense to eliminate threats to that weapon. Just hypothetically.

The other interesting thing is how well the Wendt model works going the other way. An insurgency can little hope to defeat American "outputs". The Armed Forces as such can't be defeated in action. Instead an insurgency attacks the faucet, not the water. How? "Indirectly, through, by and with the local internal supporters and population, using the correct carrots and sticks". Just hypothetically.

126 Comments:

Blogger AllenS said...

Yesterday, this thought occurred to me: If Hillary Clinton becomes president, you will never hear another bad word from the press about Iraq. To be sure, she would not pull out, and probably would not do anything different than Bush. The only thing that would change would be the msm reporting. For instance, if we suffered some casualties from a road side bomb, the press would then report that those soldiers were just returning from building a school, installing water in a village, or any number of things that our forces are doing now. The above comment was not an endorsement of HRC, but merely my effort to point out what the msm would report on the nightly news.

6/03/2006 02:43:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

There was that great footage of a talking head in a canoe in the midst of a raging flood, rudely interrupted by two pedestrians walking by in ankle deep water!
---
Something that comes to mind re Bloggers and Haditha:
Why shouldn't Milbloggers and others with expertise in related fields be able to swarm ala the Rather Document, and in so doing almost immediately come up with a detailed picture of the entire environment that would put any MSM effort to shame, and make all subsequent accounts subject to meeting this in-place reality standard?

6/03/2006 02:53:00 AM  
Blogger Tom Grey said...

The media, in being an enemy of Bush, is an ally of the terrorists.

Pres. Bush, Rumsfeld, and the military should be more honestly treating them as supporters of the enemy.

The MSM is helping to recruit terrorists to kill Americans, and to kill more Iraqis.


A big mistake was in Bremer NOT having local municipal elections of mayors, with significant reconstruction budgets and decision making authority, as well as security responsibility.

Disbanding the Army that had already disappeared was OK -- not rehiring most of them as local, official, security forces was a mistake.

Perhaps with half their salary in performance -- no terrorist attacks in their area and full bonus; 1 attack and half bonus; 2 attacks and quarter bonus.

Only the locals know the bad guys; but the whistleblowers need protection.

6/03/2006 03:17:00 AM  
Blogger Meme chose said...

Another useful concept here is outsourcing for success and lower media visibility.

We're outsourcing the fighting as fast as we can to local Iraqi forces (in whose activities the media are wholly and reliably uninterested) and our opponents in the media outsource what they do to these 'stringers', to distance themselves from what goes on and hide them from view. It's a proxy war on both sides because it can't be won in the full glare of publicity.

This reflects the MSM's double standard. Anything done by an American is either a potential or an actual scandal; anything done by a local is 'understandable' and in any case 'not news' (unless it's done to an American).

6/03/2006 05:45:00 AM  
Blogger al fin said...

The media has become a combatant, rather than a bystander conveying the happenings. The media has joined the opposition even while it is paid by western consumers. This is decadence writ large.

Expect the media to constitute more of the casualties in war, as the media makes itself more an inseparable part of the fighting.

6/03/2006 05:45:00 AM  
Blogger desert rat said...

cannoneer
"... and regardless of what the ultimate truth is, right now they are trying to take the high ground and outflank us. Though the time is not of my choosing, at least for me, the wait is over – the battle is joined – it is time to engage. ..."

Just what I've been saying for a couple of days.

Throughout US history the Press has been biased. Always Partisan, it was a given. Only in recent history has the Press been portrayed and "Objective".

It was a Partisan Press that propagated that illusion. But outside of WFBuckley the "Right: bought into the marketing and the modern myth of Press objectivity.

That is not the "Fault" of the Partisan Press.
After many years of being buffeted by ill winds we see the advent of Limbaugh, FOX News, Washington Times, etc. the penduleum is swinging back to balance.

The Press has always been Partisan, always will be.

That the "Right" did not even muster a team and gave the "Left" the field, is not the fault of the Left.
It was the "Right" that did not defend it's ideas, leaving that task to others, who never shared their views.
Whose fault is that?

6/03/2006 05:51:00 AM  
Blogger al fin said...

Perhaps that is true where you come from, DR, but in North America the press was typically behind the fighting forces of Canada and the US. Since Vietnam the press has begun to act as an enemy combatant, posing under a flag of neutrality but acting with deadly effect against North American service members.

The blowback from that treacherous behaviour will be potentially devastating for those who feel their press cards gives them a type of invulnerability.

6/03/2006 05:56:00 AM  
Blogger desert rat said...

Post WWII was the beginning of the Objectivity myth.
But if the press of the Revolutionary era, the Civil War eras are examined the Press was feverish.
The Partisans have improved, become a bit more savy and less obvious, post modern.

In WWII the story of Mr McCormick's "Chicago Tribune" mirrors today's NYTimes.
FDR could do no right, secrets were exposed in print and the "news" slanted at every opportunity.
Ir was a different age, though, 'cause the Japs didn't subscribe to the Trib.

The 'Nam experience for the Press was an awakening. Part of the disillusionment was the Press discovering the Government spokesmen "lied".

In 'Nam the root causes of the War were at issue, Nationalists or Communists, which were the Enemy, "Really"?

Same as today. Islamists, old line Nationalists, Criminals all make up the "Insurgents".
In 'Nam the US identified the Enemy and then equivicated. In Iraq we cannot identify the Enemy.

In 'Nam, The war was started on a lie. The Gulf of Tonkin Incident blown "out of proportion", so the storyline goes.
See the same today.

Hard to promote and maintain a War' popularity against a faceless foe. Especially as it devolves into Police techniques and not military combat.

One cannot fight a "shadow" war with 130,000 plus troops. With that size deployment the glare of the lights will always be blinding.

6/03/2006 06:27:00 AM  
Blogger al fin said...

It is not a question of maintaining "war popularity." That is not the media's job, although it once may have felt it was. The media's job is to report the news clearly and objectively.

But the media has overwhelmingly swarmed to the other side. It has jumped on the anti-western bandwagon, actively militating against western forces attempting to bring democracy to muslim tribal lands.

Tribal muslims are shifted way to the left on the bell curve which makes it much more difficult to bring them to modernism. But if western (anglosphere predominantly) service members are willing to voluntarily give their lives trying to make water run uphill, why should western media try so hard to get them killed?

6/03/2006 06:39:00 AM  
Blogger desert rat said...

These are the new realities, there will not be regression to WWII techniques.

Because they want to watch the War, think back to shock and awe time, D-Day plus three.
Attendance for events that weekend was way down, everyone home watching the War.

That will never be denied, now.
Those floodgates are open, technologies guarentee it.

The Military has to adapt or die, Mr Rumsfeld sees the problem, says his Team is ill equipped, he is right. Different skill sets required, entirely.

Different thought patterns required, need people that could never pass a piss test or work 9 to 5.

The problems are partially Governmental, as you described, censorship portrayed as "Fairness". With McCain-Feingold the censorship levels increase yet again. Government is the problem in it's attempts to control the Market.
It's the Market that is the solution. The Networks will be dead in a decade, naybe two.
Big pipe Inet will kill 'em.

First the print newspapers,
then the TV networks.

6/03/2006 06:46:00 AM  
Blogger desert rat said...

Ms Dosier was in a HumVee, as was that ABC anchor prospect when he was bombed.
Name some names, cite specifics of malfeacence. Blanket generalizations are way off.

The lead bleeds, locally, natinonally, internationally. Always has.
We do not cover school openings in Phoenix, why in Baghdad?
Most folk do not care about schools anywhere, let alone "over there".

The story is not how Haditha is covered, not really. The story is in Haditha, who what where why how.

Why has always been relevent.

On a lighter note, Shah Jr has finally made it ti the WSJournal
"Royal Democrat"

6/03/2006 07:00:00 AM  
Blogger Deuce ☂ said...

It is not the case that the MSM is now an additional new element in war. That started with photography during the US Civil War. Politics is nothing new in war. There is nothing new about wars of ideology and there is certainly nothing unique about wars intended to convert a reluctant civil or religious society to a new religion. The West converted from Christianity to a secular religion of democratic populism, environmentalism and social justice. It is no coincidence that Multiculturalism has spread to every former Christian country. That occurred because Christians drifted from Christianity and found the appeal of democracy, secularism and the environment. The Islamic tribes are not so ambivalent. They have not drifted from their faith and probably see the quest to push democracy on them as a crusade. The MSM has changed and their role is influenced because they are composed of people who are hard wired for social activism. Their conversion and antipathy to the more conservative part of western society is part a reaction to a perceived ideological power vacuum and they have some designs on filling that void.They have an agenda and are doing what logically follows.

6/03/2006 07:05:00 AM  
Blogger Deuce ☂ said...

There are huge political consequences to fighting wars under democratic secularism. Of paramount difficulty in fighting modern war is family size. Think about "Saving Private Ryan". When families were religious and believed in heaven and God and had five or six children, the loss of a son or two in war was tragic but acceptable. The theme of Private Ryan was that a family losing all sons was not acceptable and society should go to extraordinry measures to stop that from happening. But today many US families have only one son. They do not rely on a belief in Heaven. The affect is the air war over Kosovo is an example of changed tactics. The reaction to war loss is magnified because the individual losses are visual and unacceptable. On the other hand the Islamic tribes have large families and a profound belief that Heavan is real. Any wise insurgent strategy would be to highlight the contradictions of loss and use the MSM to achieve their goals.

6/03/2006 07:36:00 AM  
Blogger Deuce ☂ said...

perhaps

6/03/2006 07:53:00 AM  
Blogger Deuce ☂ said...

perhaps not

6/03/2006 07:54:00 AM  
Blogger desert rat said...

woof

All the Newspaper Publishers will be hitting the skids.

As more and more migrate to online issues of the papers, which is the accelerating trend line.

We all know of online providers giving away classified ads, what happens when display advertising can be "given away", as well.

One way to see how is Flip books

Each flipbook is a facsimile of a printed edition. To create a flipbook, without printing one could be a very effective way to enter the market, giving away content to create an alternate publishing reality.

At present it requires a download, but the online platform is in development.

6/03/2006 07:58:00 AM  
Blogger Starling said...

Wretchard,

I was thinking along similar lines today and just finished a post entitled Terrorism as Economic Warfare. The post is a review of a recently published academic paper by the same name. The paper analyzes the types of and motivations for attacks on economic infrastructure by terrorists. In short the authors argue that attacks on economic targets can be highly effective at both denying the state access to valuable resources and in demoralizing the population. The attacks discussed do not relate to the use of the media, per se, but I do see some analogies.

6/03/2006 08:13:00 AM  
Blogger desert rat said...

Real development in Syria.
Government forces clash with Mohammedans and Russia's Black Sea Fleet may forward deploy to Syria.

Syria Police Battle With Militants Kills 5
and
MOSCOW, June 2 (RIA Novosti)
Russia has started dredging at a Syrian port where it maintains a logistical supply point with a possible eye to turning it into a full-fledged naval base, a respected Russian business daily said Friday.

Tartus, the second most important Syrian port on the Mediterranean, could be transformed into a base for Black Sea Fleet warships when they are redeployed from the Ukrainian port of Sevastopol, Kommersant daily said, quoting sources in Russia's diplomatic service and the Defense Ministry.


There are ever growing challenges to US, other than the "spin" of the reporters delivery.

The reporting the moved me the most, on Iraq, was Mr Yon's. His description of the realities of Mosul confirmed other, less renown, reportage.

6/03/2006 08:36:00 AM  
Blogger Charles said...

Talk about attacking the infrastructure--this is a great place to recall Safire's retelling of a great story.

February 2, 2004
OP-ED COLUMNIST
The Farewell Dossier
By WILLIAM SAFIRE


WASHINGTON

Intelligence shortcomings, as we see, have a thousand fathers; secret
intelligence triumphs are orphans. Here is the unremarked story of "the
Farewell dossier": how a C.I.A. campaign of computer sabotage resulting in a
huge explosion in Siberia - all engineered by a mild-mannered economist
named Gus Weiss - helped us win the cold war.

Weiss worked down the hall from me in the Nixon administration. In early
1974, he wrote a report on Soviet advances in technology through purchasing
and copying that led the beleaguered president - détente notwithstanding -
to place restrictions on the export of computers and software to the
U.S.S.R.

Seven years later, we learned how the K.G.B. responded. I was writing a
series of hard-line columns denouncing the financial backing being given
Moscow by Germany and Britain for a major natural gas pipeline from Siberia
to Europe. That project would give control of European energy supplies to
the Communists, as well as generate $8 billion a year to support Soviet
computer and satellite research.

President François Mitterrand of France also opposed the gas pipeline. He
took President Reagan aside at a conference in Ottawa on July 19, 1981, to
reveal that France had recruited a key K.G.B. officer in Moscow Center.

Col. Vladimir Vetrov provided what French intelligence called the Farewell
dossier. It contained documents from the K.G.B. Technology Directorate
showing how the Soviets were systematically stealing - or secretly buying
through third parties - the radar, machine tools and semiconductors to keep
the Russians nearly competitive with U.S. military-industrial strength
through the 70's. In effect, the U.S. was in an arms race with itself.

Reagan passed this on to William J. Casey, his director of central
intelligence, now remembered only for the Iran-contra fiasco. Casey called
in Weiss, then working with Thomas C. Reed on the staff of the National
Security Council. After studying the list of hundreds of Soviet agents and
purchasers (including one cosmonaut) assigned to this penetration in the
U.S. and Japan, Weiss counseled against deportation.

Instead, according to Reed - a former Air Force secretary whose fascinating
cold war book, "At the Abyss," will be published by Random House next month
- Weiss said: "Why not help the Soviets with their shopping? Now that we
know what they want, we can help them get it." The
catch: computer chips would be designed to pass Soviet quality tests and
then to fail in operation.

In our complex disinformation scheme, deliberately flawed designs for
stealth technology and space defense sent Russian scientists down paths that
wasted time and money.

The technology topping the Soviets' wish list was for computer control
systems to automate the operation of the new trans-Siberian gas pipeline.
When we turned down their overt purchase order, the K.G.B. sent a covert
agent into a Canadian company to steal the software; tipped off by Farewell,
we added what geeks call a "Trojan Horse" to the pirated product.

"The pipeline software that was to run the pumps, turbines and valves was
programmed to go haywire," writes Reed, "to reset pump speeds and valve
settings to produce pressures far beyond those acceptable to the pipeline
joints and welds. The result was the most monumental non-nuclear explosion
and fire ever seen from space."

Our Norad monitors feared a nuclear detonation, but satellites that would
have picked up its electromagnetic pulse were silent. That mystified many in
the White House, but "Gus Weiss came down the hall to tell his fellow NSC
staffers not to worry. It took him another twenty years to tell me why."

Farewell stayed secret because the blast in June 1982, estimated at three
kilotons, took place in the Siberian wilderness, with no casualties known.
Nor was the red-faced K.G.B. about to complain publicly about being tricked
by bogus technology. But all the software it had stolen for years was
suddenly suspect, which stopped or delayed the work of thousands of worried
Russian technicians and scientists.

Vetrov was caught and executed in 1983. A year later, Bill Casey ordered the
K.G.B. collection network rolled up, closing the Farewell dossier. Gus Weiss
died from a fall a few months ago. Now is a time to remember that sometimes
our spooks get it right in a big way.

E-mail: safire@nytimes.com

/////////////
The CIA shows how this particular episode fitted into overall US strategey against the soviets in the early 80's here.
http://www.cia.gov/csi/studies/96unclass/farewell.htm

6/03/2006 09:19:00 AM  
Blogger Ash said...

All this babble about MSM conspiracy really is tinfoil hat stuff. Similarily we are cited an odd statistic of 1 instance involving particular journalist dying. Sounds like all the odd statistics supporting Bush/Rummy involvement in bringing down the towers. 'But, but, explain this occurance will you, what else could it mean??' Strap on your tinfoil hats for protection please! The MSM is just a huge vortex of rumors based on rumors based on, sometimes, some semlblance of fact. There is no bright clear 'outside' to be presented, unless your tinfoil hat is well secured, just shadows to yammer on and act with.


As far as the main body of the post goes; taps, faucets and streams of water...ya reality certainly has a tendency to intrude on our intellectual constructions of it. Using media and trying to steer its story certainly is a tool in the chest but 'truth'/'reality' seems to be the trump card in the end.

I've been thinking about this whole WAR on TERRORISM as being somewhat misquided. It is really only a war like we are engaged in a war on drugs. It is primarily a police action and it seems we have some prominent successes in the police approach breaking today. In Toronto, 17 have been arrested over 3 tons of Ammonium Nitrate and I saw something about terror arrests in Britain. ooops drifting OT.

6/03/2006 09:26:00 AM  
Blogger desert rat said...

ash
given Canadian involvement in Afghanistan I would not doubt the intended target could well have been Canadian. Rock their world.

Police tactics are appropriate to fight the Mohammedan threat, in many locales.
It is best done by Policemen.

6/03/2006 09:32:00 AM  
Blogger desert rat said...

Conspiracy Theories abound.
This one, Was the 2004 Election Stolen?
Republicans prevented more than 350,000 voters in Ohio from casting ballots or having their votes counted -- enough to have put John Kerry in the White House. BY ROBERT F. KENNEDY JR.

un "Rolling Stone"
One thing about the Kennedy's, they knew how to steal elections, back in the day.

6/03/2006 10:11:00 AM  
Blogger geoffgo said...

Ha. So some of our Sunflower chips found their way into embedded systems controlling the pipeline.

Since the Soviets couldn't design chips to any degree of sophistication, we built some with an extra layer. When reverse engineered layer-by-layer, there was little chance of discerning what each layer did. Called flakey-makers, each chip was designed to fail differently, periodically after current was applied for longer than a burn-in and test cycle.

We never knew before that they worked. Chuckle, chuckle.

6/03/2006 11:06:00 AM  
Blogger desert rat said...

Max Boot writes it's time to Send in the Mercenaries
Darfur needs someone to stop the bloodshed, not more empty U.N. promises.

6/03/2006 11:17:00 AM  
Blogger Charles said...

Actually its a religious problem. There's a whole group of people in the MSM who believe that feces trumps blood.

6/03/2006 12:53:00 PM  
Blogger desert rat said...

That is what Mr Yon was describing as our procedures with detainees in Iraq, cannoneer
What could be ill described as POWs detained for 90 days or up to a year and then released.
Back to the fray. Approved and endorsed by US. Required on the Course to Iraqi Soverignty.
LTC Kurilla almost lost his leg to a released detainee, a mess hall bomber, matter of fact.

I can understand the decision not to raze a city or two, it is resonable if even if wrong. The decision not to detain captured enemy combatants, for some "greater good", a bad one.
For US troops and the ability to close this challenge out and be handing off to the Iraqi.
Whether that be Baathist Lite or Islamic Revolutionaries.

Catch and Release, bad enough on the US border, how many multiples worse in a War Zone?

How could supporting a continuation of that policy be considered "Support" of the troops?

6/03/2006 01:03:00 PM  
Blogger desert rat said...

accurate and misleading.
bet the US is investigating those deaths.

But why the shock? There are no photos of the Marines encounter, these unidentified dead are from right there, too.

Be thankful they cut the blood shot, didin't crop from the top.
I would have, cropped from the top, a much more shocking scene.

Well within the "rules", but they write them as they go.

6/03/2006 01:13:00 PM  
Blogger John Aristides said...

W,

Interesting paper here, from the Strategic Studies Institute, US Army War College:

The Impact of the Media on National Security Policy Decision Making.

6/03/2006 01:23:00 PM  
Blogger Ash said...

Fred:

I do not disagree that media are biased. I do disagree with the tinfoil hat inspiring notion that the MSM is all biased in one way, and in particular, that way is to the left. And it is truly a conspiracy of delusion on the order of “jews control the world” to think that they are all meeting, developing and executing objectives to obscure the truth from the world. I find it funny that you will find the same tinfoil hat inspiring whining on the left lamenting the rightwing bias in the MSM. One compelling argument they have is that Business/Corporate interests control the MSM and those interests are predominantly conservative/business/republican. On this side of the imaginary fence we have so many lamenting the leftwing bias of the MSM because. The compelling argument being (I’m guessing) that they are all a product of our educational system that is left leaning therefore they are rabid leftists. I find it interesting that many on the far right consider the intelligentsia to be left. Not that I agree, but the irony that the smarter more educated amongst us tend to more left ideas is amusing.

I think one source of this wailing about the media being biased is that we all have our opinions, our biases, and when the media doesn’t confirm them we tend toward thinking it is a conspiracy against what we “know is right”. I watch the blatant bias of FoxNews and I scratch my head at some of your wild accusations about the leftist press being all that there is.

The bottom line (and pretty well everything we all write is opinion so no real sense in adding IMHO) is that media is biased; we are seeing things through the writers eyes. Some pay more fealty to Press Guidelines and others not. The Guidelines don’t guarantee truth just ‘confirmations’, ‘multiple sources’ and what not. So, read a lot, read widely, and treat everything read with a grain of salt and maybe some truth will penetrate the fog of the media.

Sorry about not responding to the Ralph Peters article but I’m not sure which of the umpteen links Cannoneer’s placed lead to it.

6/03/2006 01:26:00 PM  
Blogger John Aristides said...

From the paper I linked to, which I thought was apropos Belmont Club literature:

Part of the skepticism toward the press is soundly based on repeated exposures of media manipulation of the news. The most egregious recent example was the filming of "defective" trucks–a
completely staged event. In time, it will become clear that many of the dramatic photographs from the Third World are set-ups put together by Third World stringers. But stringers, those freelance, independent, sometimes part-time reporters, are increasingly commissioned to gather news and photos in remote and dangerous places where, as Peters suggests, high paid/profile journalists are loath to go. Thus, there is an increasing need to make clear who is behind the camera and what is going on outside the camera's view.

6/03/2006 01:32:00 PM  
Blogger John Aristides said...

Ash,

I think the salient point here is that whatever one thinks of media bias, one must concede that the media is an influential generator and sustainer of public opinion, and public opinion is an influential generator and sustainer of policy. Therefore, one must discuss the influence of the media--negative and positive--in the context of one's policy goals. Most here advocate a particular foreign policy, and I would say their frustration with media reporting and bias is commensurate with the negative impact such reporting and bias has on the efficacy of the championed policy.

Whatever the humorous implications of the majority of the elite being on the Left, it is, as they say, a true fact. Much of it is intellectual cronyism, what in a different context is called "court packing." There are other reasons, too, some broad and historical and others mundane and pedantic. But the point remains. The Left is overrepresented in certain fields, like academia and journalism, while the right is overrepresented in others (e.g. the military and entrepreneurial class).

6/03/2006 01:45:00 PM  
Blogger John Aristides said...

More interesting analysis from the paper I linked to above:

There will doubtless be times when new or badly organized administrations find themselves unable to articulate their goals as well as others, but the unity and clarity described above are those which come from what the military call the "Commander's intent." However inarticulate the administration or inept in its handling of the press, the inner focus or lack thereof will come across and the American people will see or hear through it.

6/03/2006 01:52:00 PM  
Blogger John Aristides said...

Presidents with low popularity polls are ineffective in influencing public opinion. If they are so-called "zone three" presidents (less than 50 percent approval ratings), their attempts at intervention usually bring about negative effects. ...

A president with low public opinion ratings can only gain
public and media support through dramatic action in response to
dramatic events. Otherwise, zone three presidents are generally
unable to positively influence public attitudes.

6/03/2006 02:14:00 PM  
Blogger John Aristides said...

Here is a paper on Elite Rhetoric and Media Coverage as they pertain to policy and public opinion.

Excerpt:

Groeling (2001) argues that journalists are generally more likely to air a story if it is novel, conflictual, balanced, and involves authoritative political actors. In brief, a preference for novelty implies simply that journalists place a premium on stories that are actually new (All else equal, journalists prefer stories that contain new or unexpected information to stories presenting old or expected information). Journalists also prefer to emphasize negativity, or conflict, in their coverage, as this adds drama (All else equal, journalists prefer stories in which political figures attack each other to stories in which political figures praise each other). Journalists’ desire for balance, in turn, follows from their strong incentive to use procedures or strategic “rituals” of objectivity in doing their jobs (Tuchman 1972 and others) (All else equal, journalists prefer stories that include both parties’ views to stories that only present the views of members of a single party). Finally the premium placed on authority reflects reporters’ belief that “the higher up an official’s position in government, the more authoritative a source he or she was presumed to be, and the better his or her prospects for making the news” (Sigal 1986, 20) (All else equal, journalists prefer to include sources with greater authority in their stories over less authoritative sources).

6/03/2006 02:30:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

I think there is a middle way.
_____GI HANK_____

I'm getting really tired of reading all the possible permutations and combinations of Why We Can't Do ANYTHING anymore, because blah blah blah.

When in fact, we got in this position in just that way.
People so easily forget what the American People would support immediately after 9-11, REGARDLESS of what the MSM had to say about it. (and much of the MSM was more hawkish too)

Over and over since then, fecklessness, squeamishness, and a generally feminized approach to "War" has put us in this box that we now say is inescapable.

(much like during GWB's terms, he ENCOURAGED illegals to enter, going from 6-8 million to 12-20, so that now he can say the problem is just too large to solve in any real way)

People like to win, hate to lose, fecklessness loses, excuses don't count in real life.

It is as if the concept of momentum in human struggles has been declared no longer operative, since time and again GWB has surrendered it, and then we spend our time "explaining" that away.

I wish more here could identify with the families of GI's killed by an "insurgent" who had been caught and released 2 times before, instead of spending all their energy defending GWB and the status quo.
...or those accused of HATE CRIMES in a Warzone.

6/03/2006 04:03:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Taliban Offensive Shot to Pieces

Taliban gunmen were staying at a religious school near Kandahar in southern Afghanistan.
Smart bombs hit the school in the middle of the night, but several dozen of the Taliban fled to nearby homes.

As Afghan and Coalition forces closed in, the surviving Taliban fired back from nearby homes.
So smart bombs were used on the homes as well, which killed about 16 civilians and wounded another twenty.
Over 80 Taliban were killed, with no Afghan army or Coalition dead.

The Taliban promptly spun their use of civilian homes, as human shields, as a Coalition atrocity.

6/03/2006 04:05:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

"*Identifying with* those accused of HATE CRIMES in a Warzone."

6/03/2006 04:08:00 PM  
Blogger desert rat said...

Suicide Bomber Hits Crowded Iraqi Market, Killing 28 and Wounding 62; Russian Diplomat Killed

A suicide car bombing in Basra, and then
In Baghdad, gunmen attacked a Russian diplomatic car just after noon, killing one Russian foreign service employee and kidnapping four, Russia's Foreign Ministry said in a statement. The ministry identified the slain Russian as Vitaly Vitalyevich Titov, according to the ITAR-Tass news agency. ...

In an unrelated piece of barbarity
Iraqi police found eight severed heads north of Baghdad with a note indicating they were killed in retaliation for the slaying of four Shiite doctors. Five of the slain men were security guards at a Baghdad hospital complex who had been arrested Thursday by Iraqi police, police Lt. Col. Adil Al-Zihari said. ,,.

6/03/2006 04:21:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Yes, everyone who disagrees was born yesterday, and is just not sophisticated enough to understand.

We expected the president to be perfect, blah blah blah.
Quite a style of argumentation:
Condescension from begining to end.

EXACTLY what GWB has tried wrt Immigration and the Stupid, Lazy, Ignorant, (racist) American People.
But grown ups don't care to be condescended to, SORRY.
There are those that refuse to admit GWB has made any mistake that wasn't imposed on him by some outside force.
I'm learning to ignore them.
---
---
Pascal Fevor said...
What was really important about the lesson of Vietnam was that American's got tired of not winning. When Hanoi's dikes remained untouched throughout that war, it told the north vietnemese we weren't the same country that had bombed 5 North Korean Dams. Our not razing terrorists strongholds tell the current creeps the same thing.

Not doing enough is a waste and a crime.
The tragic repeat of history that needs to be stopped is not our complaints here, but the no-win strategy in Washington.
---
gokart-mozart said...
War is a primitive, atavistic activity which is nevertheless deeply rooted in our species. It follows rules, not made in Geneva, which can nevertheless be discerned by a study of History.

President Bush and Donald Rumsfeld have chosen (by an act of will) to believe they can re-invent war. They are having the same success that the commissars had in re-inventing agriculture.

We need a Sherman, or a Halsey, and a President who will get out of the way.

Everything Bush wants to happen in Iraq can happen - but not without fighting and winning a war first.

6/03/2006 04:35:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

"Oh, if only the Commander-in-Chief would follow my advice and be more bloody-minded and shoot Mexicans, too I might support him again."
---
That is one VERY IMPRESSIVE comment.

Thanks.

6/03/2006 04:38:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Have you ever asked intelligent, adult questions?

6/03/2006 05:20:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

"Until these arguments are fully articulated and discussed in the open,
they will always act as the secret bugaboos that they have become in western liberal thinking,
so much as as to make rational discussion of ways and means impossible.
"
---
Agreed!

6/03/2006 05:50:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

The Trust Issue and More F-15s

June 1, 2006: The international consortium formed to build two nuclear reactors in the north, has officially cancelled the project. A 1994 agreement with North Korea, which included a halt to nuclear research in the north, required the two reactors to be built in the north by South Korea, Japan and other partners.
---
May 24, 2006: South Korea has ordered another 20 U.S. F-15K fighter-bombers.
This is an enhanced version of the F-15E, which is the most agile all-weather precision bomber in use. Within the next five years,
South Korea will have 60 F-15Ks, each capable of carrying over ten tons of smart bombs and missiles per sortie.

6/03/2006 06:25:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Smacko,
That disgusting post under my name was a QUOTE of "Canoneers."
Sorry for the misunderstanding.

6/03/2006 06:25:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

iow, I was being sarcastic about his disgusting comment.

6/03/2006 06:26:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

You may have missed some of the other comments, Trish.
He answers EVERY comment that suggests a more muscular stance in a similar manner.
A pattern, of sorts.
hmmm

6/03/2006 06:53:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

You might find Voltimand's comment informative!

6/03/2006 06:55:00 PM  
Blogger Papa Ray said...

Here is the latest example of media warfare.

Michelle Malkin has the story.

Papa Ray

6/03/2006 07:22:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Papa,
Michelle Malkin's existence no longer justifiable because of this!
---
I've SEEN similar comments at other sites by people overwhelmed by Malkin's unrelenting devastation in the name of truth!

6/03/2006 07:28:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

"Thank you for pointing out the dreadful error on our website involving the wrong picture and capture of murdered Iraqis. I have asked that it be removed immediately and an apology issued.

I'm sorry you have jumped to the conclusion that this was a deliberate misrepresentation and the result of slanted journalism and sorrier that you have shared that view with your readers without any attempt to verify it.

The Times has been meticulously fair in its coverage of the Iraq war and of US policy in general. Our editorial line...blah, blahblah, blah, blah...
"

6/03/2006 07:31:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

"I hope the paper provides a full explanation for exactly how it came to characterize and caption an April 2005 AP photo of fishermen murdered by insurgents as "victims of al-Haditha" of the "Massacre Marines blinded by hate" on Nov. 19, 2005."

Best,
Michelle Malkin

6/03/2006 07:35:00 PM  
Blogger desert rat said...

doug, see 1:13

6/03/2006 07:38:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Michelle -
I wonder how Mr. Baker would respond to this?
Search for Haditha on the UK Times website and you get article headlines like this.... are these the headlines of a non-biased newspaper? I think not:
---Revealed: how US marines massacred 24
May 28, 2006 - The Times
---Iraqis killed by US troops ‘on rampage’
---March 26, 2006 - Sunday Times
Tales of US shame and dishonour blight the week of Memorial Day
---June 03, 2006 - The Times
---March 17, 2006 - Times Online
US Marines investigated for Iraq war crimes

6/03/2006 07:41:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

'Rat,
Malkin is our best weapon, imo.

6/03/2006 07:43:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Jeff Goldstein: The battle for the narrative of Haditha begins.
***
Related:
Make sure you read Greyhawk at Mudville Gazette on what's missing from news coverage of the incident at Ishaqi.

Another must-read: Shawn Wasson on a massacre you won't read about. Don't click if you have a weak stomach.

Sweetness and Light on The Real Haditha. S&L also notes AP propaganda--running photos of My Lai to illustrate Haditha coverage.

Here it is on Yahoo! News...

6/03/2006 07:45:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

From the Sweetness Link above:
---
DVDs of beheadings on the bridge are distributed free in the souk.
Children prefer them to cartoons. "They should not watch such things," said one grandfather, but parents appeared not to object.

One DVD features a young, blond muscular man who had been disembowelled. He was said to have been a member of a six-strong US sniper team ambushed and killed on August 1. Residents said he had been paraded in town before being executed.

The US military denied that, saying six bodies were recovered and that all appeared to have died in combat.
Shortly after the ambush three landmines killed 14 marines in a convoy which ventured from their base outside the town.

6/03/2006 07:48:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

I FEEL like I'm JUST LIKE THEM!
Just for posting that.
Sorry I still exist.
I think.
...therefore, uh

6/03/2006 07:50:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Admin response so far has been just like the admin of Duke University and the Lacross Team:

Better to start dismantling the Marines pronto rather than to be so rash as to stand firm.
---
Some things you just can't do anymore you know:
---New Paradigm
---Evolved Society
---MSM
etc

6/03/2006 08:05:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

GWB=CYA

6/03/2006 08:05:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

"The first principles of war are to know and understand who you are and to know and understand your enemy. If you shortchange this process, is it any wonder that you cannot cut the enemy's family jewels off?"
---
Cut the namby-pamby polite talk fred!
I don't get nuance, tell us what you think!

6/03/2006 08:28:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Ms Rice asked him what kind of body language to display at the United Nations meeting.
Should she signal that the United States was considering negotiations with Iran?

"Be careful," Bush said, according to officials familiar with the conversation. "I haven't made up my mind."
---
Maybe Condi should have made her address from a Fetal Position?

6/03/2006 08:30:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

8:30 PM
Agreed: We're not worthy!

6/03/2006 08:32:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Yeah, LeMay's firebombings of Japan ONLY burned factories, not almost a million men, women, and children.

6/03/2006 08:34:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

The Marianas were now crowded with over 700 B-29s which were accompanied on missions by hundreds of P-51s. On April 13, 327 B-29s swept over Tokyo at night incinerating eleven square miles.
Two nights later 303 Superfortresses were back over Tokyo burning six square miles. Also destroyed was three an a half square miles of the town of Kawasaki, and a mile and a half of Yokohama. Admiral Nimitz ordered Lemay to drop thousands of mines which virtually shut down all shipping.
The mine laying left the Japanese in chaos, as the results were so effective Japan was actually starving. Nimitz praised LeMay and called the results phenomenal.
During the summer the Marianas was crowded with over 1000 B-29s.
After 2 hours of bombardment the wooden city of Tokyo was engulfed in a firestorm. These fires were so hot they would literally ignite the clothing on individuals as they were fleeing. What was particularly horrifying was a lot of the women were wearing what were called 'air-raid turbans' around their heads and the heat would ignite those turbans like igniting a wick on a candle to start consuming the flame.
The aftermath of the incendiary bombings lead to an estimated 100,000 Japanese dead.

In the context of total war, the large number of Japanese civilians killed by strategic bombing was seen as acceptable by the American administration. When reflecting on the campaign after the war, some expressed doubts about the morality of the firebombing. Curtis LeMay later said:
"I suppose if I had lost the war, I would have been tried as a war criminal."
He felt, however, that his bombings were saving lives by encouraging Japan to surrender earlier. Former Japanese prime minister Fumimaro Konoe's statement that, fundamentally, the thing that brought about the determination to make peace was the prolonged bombing by the B-29s, lends support to this view.
General Curtis LeMay notified Bomber Command and Gen. Norstad that every Japanese City was severely damaged, that Japan had no supplies, no fuel, no aircraft defense system, and it would be only a matter of time if the firebombing continued before Japan would surrender.
He had no voice in the dropping of the bomb. The argument will go on forever, was it really necessary?
It should not be forgotten that the word "surrender" was not in the Japanese vocabulary.
They were still a fanatical nation, willing to commit suicide before surrender.
How many Americans would have been killed had we invaded Japan?
Some put the figure at half a million, maybe more.

There was a solution to stop the killing and we took it.

6/03/2006 08:55:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

6/03/2006 09:00:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

To think that some of my schoolteachers were a part of that FIREBOMBING!
Where's the CYANIDE?

6/03/2006 09:02:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

It helps when you have logic and common sense on your side.
That, according to some, is also a thing of the past.

6/03/2006 09:04:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Many equate any call for a more aggressive policy with one of total destruction, even genocide:
What's up with that?
---
"Yesterday's air attack was the first stage of "graduated punishment." It is intended to make three crucial points to the Lebanese and Palestinian terrorist organizations, the Syrians and the Lebanese government: From now on, Israel intends to exact a high price for every attack on the northern communities and soldiers; from now on, Israel's retaliation will be in proportion to the severity and objectives of the other side's actions"
---
---
I want to graduate all the way up to eliminating Catch and Release!
Since GWB doesn't,
Does that make me a WAR CRIMINAL in waiting?

Just Curious.

6/03/2006 09:15:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

I am begining to think you are a microchip.

6/03/2006 09:15:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

"When Hanoi's dikes remained untouched throughout that war, it told the north vietnemese we weren't the same country that had bombed 5 North Korean Dams.
Our not razing terrorists strongholds tell the current creeps the same thing.
"

6/03/2006 09:18:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

HCN=Hydrogen Cyanide

6/03/2006 09:20:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

What the hey!
It's only the Survival of Western Civilization.
(Not to mention our Warrior's lives and limbs.)
Sorry, W.

6/03/2006 09:27:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

To you,
for me it's the cyanide.
I have seen the full scope of my unworthiness.
Encouraging desertion by criticising policies of the Great W, war crimes such as detention of enemy combatants, etc.
---
I'd say,
"Goodbye, Cruel World,"
but
I'M the cruel one!

6/03/2006 09:35:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

One last hit of smack before the Cyanide.
Ahhhhh...

6/03/2006 09:38:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

I left out BDS:
I'M Deranged!

6/03/2006 09:40:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Did you see the Malkin Links yet smacko, or is she on the censored list of war criminal enablers?

6/03/2006 09:41:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

9:41 PM Could you bless us with your opinion of Catch and Release Mr. Tight Cannon?

6/03/2006 09:43:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

sorry
cannoneer no. 4
my bad

6/03/2006 09:44:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Assertion:

"I'd like to eliminate catch and release."

Response:

"How many Babies are you willing to shoot in Cold Blood?

6/03/2006 09:48:00 PM  
Blogger Unknown said...

I'm a bit puzzled that the conversation has stuck to the 'main stream media' issue.

Old hat.

Wretchard's article talks first about the infrastructure. I suspect the Iranian Shia militias in Basra are skimming 20-30% of the oil that moves through the town. That's infrastructure and I don't see anyone making useful suggestions about how it can be controlled.

6/03/2006 09:50:00 PM  
Blogger ledger said...

Wretchard, Cannoneer No. 4 and others have laid out a very strong case that the MSM have been used as a tool by the enemy.

Some would even say the MSM has openly sided with the enemy (stringers hired by the AP have been openly photographing the enemy by their side). This may be the case or may not (there are some honest reporters - but not many). But, one thing is certain is the MSM have not helped in this war and probably emboldened the enemy and caused harm to our troops.

I will make a few helpful suggestions:

1) Specifically ID the bad guys in the media (determine and isolate the foe). This means naming names of the offensive writers and their employers. Several large media outlets are the real bad apples: The NYT (and there sister paper the Boston Globe), The Washington Post, and the AP. Make a note of truly offensive writers and let them know how much you dislike them.

2) Those in the military or family members of those in the military should realize these "news outlets" are harming their family (and disparaging the war as a whole). They should make their dissatisfaction known to said "news organizations" or halt all consumption of said news products. Hit them where it hurts the most => in the wallet.

3) Divest all financial holdings in said "news outlets" like the New York Times Co., Time Warner and the like. If you have been in the military and are an investment advisor for a large pension or investment pool sell all holdings of said "news companies." These investments are not likely to go up in value. If you have a 401K, IRA or the like, make sure that you are not invested in said "news corporations."

4) Support all allied news organizations that do not pander to the enemy. Granted the pickings are slim but they are out there. For example, the Wall Street Journal has been a fairly good supporter of the war and has some good articles (This is the Dow Jones Corp). There are probably some good local news outlets to choose from. And, of course, there are the blogs - such as this fine web log.

6/03/2006 09:50:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Assertion:
"I wish W. had not abandoned workplace enforcement, and been more serious about illegal immigration these last 6 years."

Response:
"So you hate Mexicans!
Do you want to shoot them all,
or just deport them all?
"

6/03/2006 09:53:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

nonomous 9:50 PM:
Yesterday I read that the one way we might get offshore drilling is to let CONGRESS skim the proceeds!
----
Don't know why they didn't think of that before!

Must be a SERIOUS energy crisis in addition to the usual lack of tax dollars crisis in Congress!

6/03/2006 09:57:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

The ROE's are important because are warriors are being needlessly sacrificed to them.
I see you hate all people living in Hawaii.
"Pineapples"
oooh

6/03/2006 10:10:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Assertion:
"Sometimes I wonder if GWB isn't perfect."

Response:
"Aha! BDS!"

6/03/2006 10:15:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

"The situation in Haditha cannot be blamed on the ROE or Bush."
---
I thought we didn't know what happened there yet:
Got a link?

6/03/2006 10:52:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

In my 4:05 PM, should those Civilians have been killed?

Should the religious school have been bombed?

How about the Private Home?

6/03/2006 10:56:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Think I'll tell my kid to stick around the Air Force if he wants to kill any enemy combatants, legal, or otherwise.

6/03/2006 10:57:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Wounded CBS reporter transferred to Germany
Injured by blast that killed 4, Dozier briefly regained consciousness in flight.
---
She was probably dreaming she was in a hotel room at her laptop, typing out some bogus story.
---
But she's from Honolulu:
Probably hates Mexicans.

6/03/2006 11:00:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Gratuitously calling someone a racist is not "flippant?"
---
Assymetric Warfare Indeed.

6/03/2006 11:07:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

I was giving my opinion of the ROE's, ...again.

Just trolling for new responses like traitor, BDS sufferer etc.

Since no-one will just come out and Defend THEM.

6/03/2006 11:10:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

11:10 PM see my 11:10 PM

6/03/2006 11:12:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

The ROE's could have been at fault, depending on what happened:

If they were attacked by someone previously caught, then released, the ROE's should rightly be blamed.

6/03/2006 11:15:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Ok:
Please apologize for calling me a racist.

6/03/2006 11:23:00 PM  
Blogger Deuce ☂ said...

All weekend I heard the news reports of The "Canadian Terrorists". Well there are Canadians and then there are Canadians. I did find the release on the adult names:
"The adult suspects from Toronto are Chand, alias Abdul Shakur, 25; Fahim Ahmad, 21; Jahmaal James, 23; and Asin Mohamed Durrani, 19. Those from Mississauga are Ghany; Abdelhaleen; Zakaria Amara, 20; Asad Ansari, 21; Saad Khalid, 19; and Qayyum Abdul Jamal, 43."
Clearly the group identifier here is that they are all Canadians. I wonder if they belong to the Canadian Garden Club?

6/04/2006 04:18:00 AM  
Blogger Deuce ☂ said...

What starts in the press can soon become dogma. All have heard the various defendants of illegal immigration, including President Fox make comments referring to the fact that "indigenous people" (read Mexicans of Indian ancestry) have been crossing the border for centuries. It is a cultural thing. No one in the press ever challenges the assertion. This assertion will be parroted until it becomes accepted fact. The MSM will further put out a headline that often states as fact what is often outrageous assertions. Read the penultimate paragraph and think California, Texas, Arizona. I wonder if our "kick ass, with us or against us, POTUS reads the BBC?

Bolivia Head Starts Land Handout
By James Read
BBC News


"Evo Morales handed out land titles
Bolivia's president has given more than 30,000 square km (18,600 sq miles) of land to indigenous peasant communities under a programme of agrarian reform.
Evo Morales launched the programme after landowners walked out of talks with the government, warning they would take action to defend their estates.

Thousands of peasants gathered in the centre of Santa Cruz to see Mr Morales launch his agrarian revolution.

They cheered and waved rainbow flags symbolising indigenous resistance.

The venue for the ceremony was carefully chosen: Santa Cruz is the home base of Bolivia's main landowners' federation, which is deeply opposed to the land reform.

When its leaders walked out of talks with the government, they warned that their members would form self-defence groups to protect their estates.

But President Morales is clearly in no mood for compromise.

Bolivia's big landowners, he said, had to accept that the lands their ancestors stole during the Spanish conquest five centuries ago would now be returned to their original owners.

The land handed out on Saturday was already owned by the state."

6/04/2006 04:37:00 AM  
Blogger desert rat said...

It's funny.
A few incidents of Criminal Activity by US troops, Army and Marines, and the cry goes out.
Don't judge them all by the actions of a few!
Okay, I'll buy that.

Enemy Combatants are detained in Iraq, but the court cases are weak. The arresting US trooper has rotated home, is unavailable to testify, or the "suspect" has paid a bribe and is released.

Learn to "live with it", "good for the cause".
When the released detainee bombs another US troop or Iraqi civilian, that's "acceptable" collateral damage in the cause of politcal growth in Iraq.

But ask for sinilar evidence in the MSM case and that is just beyond the pale of reasonableness.

Well, that not how the RoE for debates work any more, fellas.
No blanket accusations, oh no.

Not acceptable from the Marine bashers, not acceptable for the Terrorist prosecutors, it is certainly not acceptable from MSM bashers, either.

Those are the RoE's,
live with 'em, get used to 'em, it's for your own good.

Prove the MSM are the Enemy, everytime. It will take more than "accurate but misleading" to win the case.

The MSM Detainee is released
For your own good, in the "Long War"

6/04/2006 05:18:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

A Marine who followed orders to photograph corpses of Iraqis allegedly slain by members of his unit last fall claims...

6/04/2006 05:21:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

We gotta make sacrifices, 'Rat:
Otherwise we'll end up just like them!
(We = someone else's 19 yr old kid)

6/04/2006 05:23:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

So, 2164th hates Canucks, does he?
More proof that we really are no different than "them."

6/04/2006 05:24:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

We could commit one of those internet chat suicide pacts to atone, 'Rat.
You up for that?

6/04/2006 05:25:00 AM  
Blogger desert rat said...

Not today, life beckons.

I'm livin' life 'til life won't have me anymore, doug.

do or die, and dyin's never been considered a "real" option

6/04/2006 05:34:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

Dr. Beach Rat

6/04/2006 05:38:00 AM  
Blogger desert rat said...

PHOENIX - Fifty-five National Guard members from Utah arrived in Yuma on Saturday afternoon — the first troops to be sent to the Arizona-Mexico border in a new crackdown on illegal immigration. ...

Well, doug, that is 1% of the proposed Force increase for Border Security.
Will the other 99% arrive before this 1% rotates home, in 12 days?

6/04/2006 05:40:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

Maui's Fleming named America's best beach

6/04/2006 05:42:00 AM  
Blogger desert rat said...

Or will it be 6,000 total, all year, you know 120 extra bodies, each week?

That'll make "ALL"the difference

6/04/2006 05:44:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

So, when did you contract BDS, Mr. Rat?
---
You might spread it to the Beach Bunnies, I'm puttin you in quarantine!

6/04/2006 05:44:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

A little rumpy humpy in the bush!
---
Maybe that's what George Needs:
Break that bondage with the first lady.
Excercise something besides that Bike.

6/04/2006 05:50:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

He discovered even his clones were no better than "them."
---
Well, thanks, Clone D, hello B, gday C, Hi there Clone E, etc etc."

"Oh please call me James!" they all cried.

I tried to be nice to my selves. But it wasn't easy. Clone C carried my dominant gene; Clone D, my selfish gene; while Clone E was clearly a mutant. Having pleasantly established that we were all blue-eyed day traders with hexagonal birthmarks on our lower backs and the same tedious fingerprints, conversation turned to Section 36 of the Trade Practices Act.

It was then that I realised I'd have to shoot them all.
Massacre of the (Unworthy, Self-loathing) Clones.

6/04/2006 05:54:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

We're gettin tough on the border!
That's our boy George:
9-11 got his rear in gear.
(reverse, 6 years later)

6/04/2006 05:58:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

"in a new crackdown "
---
I'm feeling rash and brash:
I'm gonna call it the
New a new crackdown!
Nuevo Cowboy Talk!
All Crack, no boy.

6/04/2006 06:06:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

"New new crackdown "
(I just new I'd screw that up)

6/04/2006 06:08:00 AM  
Blogger geoffgo said...

Canoneer,

Being forced to become beastly, as you put it, is not a moral issue. The reason we can remain the good guys, is because we will stop the killing when the enemy unconditonally surrenders.

We're such good guys, we frequently stop the killing pre-maturely. See First Gulf War.

If the enemy objective is escalation, it is in no way becoming beastly to comply. It's simple self-defense, which can never be immoral.

We don't have to kill millions of Muslims, just a few hundred or perhaps some thousands. I'm all for prosecuting this 4GW on our terms.

Target every Imam, anywhere, who spews the murderous parts of Islam. Provoke them to change the Koran. No central authority? Sorry, no excuses. Get it together, or get dead.

Let no radical Iman be safe. Start with Mookie.

6/04/2006 06:10:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

"Let no radical Iman be safe. Start with Mookie." pbuh

6/04/2006 06:19:00 AM  
Blogger desert rat said...

"... Now, according to congressmen who have been briefed by the Pentagon, the military is investigating Kilo Company for possible war crimes. Investigators have seen grisly photographs and are pursuing allegations of a cover-up. Ominously, there are also reports of atrocities in other places, committed by young soldiers who cracked under the pressure of a war fought on a battlefield with no front lines, no easy way to tell civilians from insurgents, and no end in sight. ..."

Ignore these reports, stay the course of "core values" training and watch the Force become "hollow".
Seen this all, before.

"... Young men join the Marines to be like the warriors in those recruiting ads, brave knights in noble combat. They do not imagine they're joining a military version of the Peace Corps to be humanitarian workers. In training, they spend endless hours learning how to fire their weapons and kill the enemy. They do not spend much time learning how to be tolerant and neighborly with foreign peoples who speak a different language and practice a different religion. "I'm pissed off that they sent us over there to do a police action," says Kilo Company's Cpl. James Crossan, who was wounded when the IED exploded in Haditha. "There's still a war going on."..."

But that Corporal was there, in Haditha, so what would he possibly know?
He did not participate in "War Gaming" the action, no, for Corporal Crasson & especially Lance Cpl. Miguel Terrazas, it was no game at all.

Life doesn't have Lance Cpl. Miguel Terrazas, any more, all so Haditha can be controlled and secured for Mr a-Sadr and his Team.

What whereas covers that Goal, in the Authorization for Use of Force?

6/04/2006 06:19:00 AM  
Blogger vbwyrde said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

6/04/2006 06:24:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

"There's still a war going on."
---
Man, that kid's got it bad.
Sad.

6/04/2006 06:24:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

It's a DEMOCRACY in a New Paradigm.
How should that dodo know tho?

6/04/2006 06:25:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

Whereas you be an as, George.

6/04/2006 06:28:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

Mr Sadr and his A-Team.

6/04/2006 06:29:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

I have concluded you are
Devoid of Compassion, 'Rat.
Severe BDS.

6/04/2006 06:32:00 AM  
Blogger Deuce ☂ said...

The Few, The Proud, The Screwed

These guys are going to be hung out to dry. The stage hands that put them there have already started the "few bad apples" mantra. Hipocrisy seems to survive flag waving doesn't it.

6/04/2006 06:37:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

We don't Cotton to Canuck Haters in Texas, Boy!

6/04/2006 06:38:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

I didn't say LeRoy!

6/04/2006 06:39:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

gokart-mozart,
Thank you very much, and good night.
I pray my dreams will be of peace, and not some New Age Self-Loathing Nightmare.

6/04/2006 06:49:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

Just try calling him a racist, and letting it go at that.
Class Act.

6/04/2006 07:50:00 PM  

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